Home Automation Without Internet...local android?

[mike]

I have a bunch of old X10 stuff that I use for remote
switching. I even have a Firecracker around here somewhere
that can control from a computer.

I've been collecting cheap smart home stuff to migrate.
So far I have a Wink Hub and some Centralite 4256050-ZHA,ZHAC
Zigbee lamp modules that claim to be wink-compatible.

So, I fired up the smartphone and installed the Wink App.
Turns out that the app is merely a user interface and all
the magic happens in the cloud. I don't want my stuff accessible
via the web under any circumstances.
Then, there's the Wink FAQ that describes how to reset the system
after a power failure...all requiring manual access to the hub.
Lotta good that does if you ain't home.

I don't mind dedicating a local smartphone to the project.
Is there a way to make the phone operate the home automation
stuff or the WINK hub directly without the internet connection?

I found a couple of home automation newsgroups, but there
are no postings.

Where's a good place to go for this kind of discussion?

[VanguardLH]

You say X10 but then you say you have the Wink Hub?

https://www.wink.com/products/wink-hub/
"Connection: Required to connect Wink Hub compatible products to the
Wink app."

https://www.wink.com/help/faq/#using_wink
"You can access, control, and automate your Wink-enabled products from
the Wink app wherever you are, as long as you are connected to the
Internet or mobile data."

Well, that's the nature of that beast. If you don't want any
communication to go over the Internet, why did you go with Wink?

Why not get one of the various X10 wireless remote controls to connect
to an X10 wireless transceiver that sends the signals over the A/C
wiring to the X10 modules?

https://www.x10.com/x10-basics.html

[mike]

On 8/7/2018 11:01 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> mike wrote:
>
>> I have a bunch of old X10 stuff that I use for remote
>> switching. I even have a Firecracker around here somewhere
>> that can control from a computer.
>>
>> I've been collecting cheap smart home stuff to migrate.
>> So far I have a Wink Hub and some Centralite 4256050-ZHA,ZHAC
>> Zigbee lamp modules that claim to be wink-compatible.
>>
>> So, I fired up the smartphone and installed the Wink App.
>> Turns out that the app is merely a user interface and all
>> the magic happens in the cloud. I don't want my stuff accessible
>> via the web under any circumstances.
>> Then, there's the Wink FAQ that describes how to reset the system
>> after a power failure...all requiring manual access to the hub.
>> Lotta good that does if you ain't home.
>>
>> I don't mind dedicating a local smartphone to the project.
>> Is there a way to make the phone operate the home automation
>> stuff or the WINK hub directly without the internet connection?
>>
>> I found a couple of home automation newsgroups, but there
>> are no postings.
>>
>> Where's a good place to go for this kind of discussion?
>
> You say X10 but then you say you have the Wink Hub?

Yes, I did. Paragraph 2.
Compatibility is NOT an expectation of this migration.

>
> https://www.wink.com/products/wink-hub/
> "Connection: Required to connect Wink Hub compatible products to the
> Wink app."

Also Paragraph 2.

>
> https://www.wink.com/help/faq/#using_wink
> "You can access, control, and automate your Wink-enabled products from
> the Wink app wherever you are, as long as you are connected to the
> Internet or mobile data."
>
> Well, that's the nature of that beast. If you don't want any
> communication to go over the Internet, why did you go with Wink?

I went with Wink because it was $1 impulse purchase at a garage sale.
I went with ZigBee modules because they were 25-cents at a garage sale
and are Wink compatible.

Wink appears to be the most compatible with technologies from other
vendors.

I did hook it up and made it work tonight. I just don't want to
have to connect to the web. It's just one more handle for hackers
to grab. I also wouldn't want anything controlled to be damaged
by what comes through the web interface, be it intentionally
disruptive or just a malfunction.
That's why I'm looking for options.

WeMo appears to be WiFi compatible but has very limited support.
I'm not prepared to invest any real money in this anyway.

It looks like Wink may have an API that could be used to do
interesting things, but the web connection is a deal breaker.

>
> Why not get one of the various X10 wireless remote controls to connect
> to an X10 wireless transceiver that sends the signals over the A/C
> wiring to the X10 modules?

Well, that's what I have.

Forget that I mentioned X10 at all.
I'm looking for "Home Automation Without Internet...local android?"
as per the subject line.
>
> https://www.x10.com/x10-basics.html
>

[Carlos E.R.]

You may not be able to use of-the-self items.

There is a problem. To connect to something at your home from outside,
you need to know the IP from outside. On most homes, the IP is dynamic.
To make things easy, what most manufacturers do is that all the home
gadgets call some predefined server outside to tell "I'm here". And your
controlling gadget, say your phone, also connect to that outside server.
An intermediary. With a registration to make "sure" it is you.


If you do not want this, then you have to do it all yourself. Create the
outside intermediary, change the firmware so that it connects to that
one instead...

Or use some type of dynamic dns service, so that you can access your
home by name (and keep tracks of IP changes), then connect from outside
to some machine inside your home, and from this one you control your
home gadgets securely.

Or you might have IPv6, instead. And it might be a fixed IP.

This becomes more difficult, obviously, that just purchasing stuff and
plugining...


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[VanguardLH]

mike wrote:

> I went with Wink because it was $1 impulse purchase at a garage sale.
> I went with ZigBee modules because they were 25-cents at a garage sale
> and are Wink compatible.

You're stuck with their decision to allow remote control from a long
distance via the Internet rather than short-distance and local wireless
control. With Wink, you could turn on the A/C or lights before you get
home. With X10 wireless, you have to wait until you get home.

https://www.wink.com/help/faq/#getting_started

That says you can have local control (no Internet needed). It also
describes how they secure the endpoints (remote via app and devices) to
prevent someone else from accessing your devices over the Internet.

> I just don't want to have to connect to the web. It's just one more
> handle for hackers to grab.

But anyone could also hack local control whether for X10 or Wink. There
are folks that drive around with a board full of garage door remotes to
see whose garage they can open.

https://www.wink.com/security/

That communication is over the Internet doesn't make is less secure than
using RF (wireless) for local control. It's the security employed at
the endpoints that determines how secure is a setup. Part of the
security is YOU using *strong* passwords, not something short or
composed of just words that is susceptible to dictionary attack. It
also means you don't reuse passwords for your computer, router, your
online accounts, or anywhere else: if one gets hacked, they cannot use
the password (or they one to which they changed an account) to hack into
your other accounts or devices.

[sxgvegovujvdhdfortughjk]

On 8/8/2018 7:43 AM, VanguardLH wrote:

> mike wrote:

>> I just don't want to have to connect to the web. It's just one
>> more handle for hackers to grab.
>
> But anyone could also hack local control whether for X10 or Wink.
> There are folks that drive around with a board full of garage door
> remotes to see whose garage they can open.

Modern garage door openers using encrypted rolling codes pretty much
eliminated drive-bys.

> That communication is over the Internet doesn't make is less secure
> than using RF (wireless) for local control.

I agree with the OP. On the Internet umpteen hackers have access to many
points of attack (like the providers server for example) whereas with
local control hackers have to be in radio range and that cuts the
chances down quite a bit. In my case that would be 8 or 10 neighbors and
that suspicious car parked out in front...

[VanguardLH]

Their online FAQ says their app allows local remote control, so the OP
can use Wink either way: long-distance over the Internet or locally via
wireless (which means the Wink hubs would have to support the same
2.4GHz band as the phone - I doubt they bother using the 5GHz band but
they might).

[nospam]

In article <1635myr0...@v.nguard.lh>, VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH>
wrote:

> >
> >> That communication is over the Internet doesn't make is less secure
> >> than using RF (wireless) for local control.
> >
> > I agree with the OP. On the Internet umpteen hackers have access to many
> > points of attack (like the providers server for example) whereas with
> > local control hackers have to be in radio range and that cuts the
> > chances down quite a bit. In my case that would be 8 or 10 neighbors and
> > that suspicious car parked out in front...
>
> Their online FAQ says their app allows local remote control, so the OP
> can use Wink either way: long-distance over the Internet or locally via
> wireless (which means the Wink hubs would have to support the same
> 2.4GHz band as the phone - I doubt they bother using the 5GHz band but
> they might).

<https://www.wink.com/help/products/wink-hub-2/>
Wi-FiŽ network with 2.4 GHz or 5 GHz routers running on WPA-PSK, open
security, or WEP. Ethernet Port.

[mike]

The info available seems to be very vague about that.
First, I have an original wink, not the wink-2.
People imply that local control bypasses the internet link for SOME
devices, but the web connection remains active.
All functionality might not be supported, like robots and timers.
Experiences differ about whether the Wink Hub can boot and run
the system without an internet connection.

The appliance modules do seem to dim the lamps. That might be
a big problem when you use one to control something like a fan.

The modules don't always respond. Trying again, often works, but
that's inadequate for a programmed system.

It appears that you can root the Wink Hub if you got one before they
disabled something required to do that. Not clear whether updates
disabled that for all of them.

This is getting way more complicated than it's worth.